Should an old person even use the computer program?

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InsaneBeast
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Should an old person even use the computer program?

Postby InsaneBeast » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:21 pm

Hi, I'm 36 years old is it a waste of time to use this computer program? It seems like interval loader and chord hopper might still be relevant but is playing Absolute Pitch Avenue just a waste of time? Or maybe it's all a waste of time... please let me know, thanks.

aruffo
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Re: Should an old person even use the computer program?

Postby aruffo » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:33 pm

The most unfortunate fact of the matter is that it is still true that no adult has ever learned perfect pitch. The fact remains the same: if you practice naming notes, after a few weeks you will learn to name a few of them. This "ability" will persist for as long as you practice, but it is not musically useful, and as soon as you stop practicing it goes away. This is what will happen, and has always happened since 1898, completely irrespective of what program, or course, or approach is used.

Interval Loader is still the best program for adults. It works, and it helps.

Chordhopper is also helpful for adults for the sake of learning to disambiguate chords. It has been scientifically demonstrated that untrained listeners cannot pick out the individual notes of a chord; Chordhopper uses natural principles of perceptual differentiation to help adults become able to do this. It is based on Eguchi absolute-pitch training, but other research (on the Eguchi method itself) shows that unless a child is literally forced to do this activity, they will not do it, and if they do, they will not like it.

Absolute Pitch Avenue can be helpful for learning to disambiguate pitches. It is the first program ever to actually teach you how to hear tone chroma—not just suggest, or guide, or prompt, but teach. The unfortunate truth is that, because it worked, I found out that just hearing tone chroma is not the same as learning perfect pitch. Just because you can perceive something doesn't mean you understand it. But some musicians have reported their appreciation of having a keener sense of the pitches in the music they hear and play.

Absolute Pitch Painter is a trial balloon based on my theories. I'm still collecting data from it. I enjoy playing it, myself, but I can't and don't make any promises about it yet.

Space
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Re: Should an old person even use the computer program?

Postby Space » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:36 am

I get that no adult has been shown to learn AP from any method whatsoever. However, I do have trouble understanding what you define as "real" AP. Are you suggesting that if one were to actually learn "real" AP that they wouldn't have to put effort into learning to identify pitches or that they could learn any old group of pitches without effort just like children do?

I've also always felt a little perplexed by your repeated comment that being able to "name notes" isn't musically useful. I've been doing all kinds of eartraining for 20 years now and the AP side of my training has yielded VERY musically useful results. Not only practical results in my ability to interact with other musicians much more directly, quickly, and tastefully, but also my overall feeling of connection with music. It's not just that I can identify what keys pieces are in or various notes I'm hearing - it's the HOW and WHY I can identify them. The perceptual uniqueness of a particular pitch is something I've developed an emotional connection to. The "C-ness" of C vs the "G-ness" of G are something very alive and meaningful to me. So at least in my anecdotal experience, my ability to name notes has been quite musically useful, indispensable even. Though it's true that after all these years, my AP still isn't "fully developed", I've had enough of it for long enough that I can't imagine my musical life without it.

I guess I'm just still not entirely clear on your meaning behind some of these things in spite of following your work for all these years.

Rob

aruffo
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Re: Should an old person even use the computer program?

Postby aruffo » Mon May 27, 2019 6:22 pm

Being able to "name notes" in the pseudo-AP sense of the term is as musical useful as my being able to name the letters of the Greek alphabet. It doesn't do any good unless it can be integrated with fluent language. I wonder what your experience is right now. Also, of course, "been shown to be" is a crucial phrase.

Where are you, geographically?


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