Question for Lorelei

Talk about what you've discovered by using ETC-- and post your high ranks!
Karoma
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm

Postby Karoma » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:51 am

Yeah, the fact that everyone hears things a little differently
and no one's wrong is what makes this all the more interesting. Maybe this just goes to show that keys are as multi-faceted as people are, and that certain facets speak to certain individuals more than others. Or maybe not, lol. At any rate my favorite key happens to be a key that many people describe as either "childlike", "neutral", or just plain "boring"- C major. But the fact remains for me that no other key captures my ear, my heart, or my imagination like C major does. I love that so many songs are in C major!

png
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:29 am

Postby png » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:18 am

Hi lorelei,

thanks again for answering these questions!!

I have also an other one, but I don't know if you could answer it or not.

You have absolute pitch, but you many times mentioned that you also have some kind of fucntional hear, so you can hear that a chord wants to resolve to to an other one.
My question is : Most people have ( me too ) have this kind of hearing - functional hearing.
You many times said that this is not perfect pitch, but I was wondering how it differs?
Can functional hearing hide the chroma? ( like, if you concentrate on the funciton of the pitch you'll miss the chroma? ).
Can you watch for function and chroma at the same time?

Last question. Do you have any idea/practical stuff that concentrates on the chroma only?
Something that can be only enjoyable ( by enjoyable I could say it "makes sense" ) if you happen to know/hear the chroma?

Regards,
Norbert

ps : I hope you understand my post, English is not my first and best language :)

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:49 pm

Functional hearing is a result of understanding how music works. The most basic function here, I guess, is just hearing that one chord resolves to another. The more you learn, the better you understand exactly what resolves where and how. This is a useful skill, but it is not the same as AP, which, without the functional hearing, may result in the listener hearing, say, "C major chord- F major chord- G major chord- back to C major," while the non- AP person with functional hearing may say, "that is a I-IV-V-I progression". The person with both of these functions can say that it is a I IV V I progression in C major, and say that the chords are C major, F major, G major and C major. So while AP and his sort of functional hearing are two different things, they don't cancel each other out.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:38 pm

As for something that only works for chroma, I guess something you could try to do is transpose something entirely by ear. I can't think of anything perfect, of course. It's hard to come up with something like that, but transposing something entirely by ear and listening for how it sounds different from the original is interesting sometimes, even though it can make the piece sound really weird. You can also analyze the pitch of everyday noises, I guess.

png
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:29 am

Postby png » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:57 am

Hi lorelei, thanks for your answers, again.

Interesting what you say about transposing... So, when you transpose a piece, than everything remains the same for a relative pitcher, but the chrome changes, so when you listen for the changing you eventually listen for the chroma?

Can I ask, how do you do the transposing in your head?
Do you do it pitch by pitch ( like first note is B - one whole step up is C#, second note is D - a whole step up is E - and so on...), or can you just start the melody on any pitch like "us" relative pitchers?

Regards,
Norbert

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:29 am

When you transpose something, you just keep all the relationships the same but you change the chroma. I kind of transpose pitch by pitch, but not really, since it's a lot faster. As a matter of fact, I don't even know how it happens besides just the basic chroma changing. I could start the melody on any pitch, but if I don't pay attention to it, it goes to the right pitch.

png
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:29 am

Postby png » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Hi,

other question.
Does chroma behaves similar to color? Like mixing two colors you can get an other color. If you mix chromas - like in chords, do you experience this?
Also, if you hear the same chord but in different voicings/inversions, does it affect the chroma
?

Regards,
Norbert

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:02 pm

Does chroma behaves similar to color? Like mixing two colors you can get an other color.

It’s hard to explain music in terms of color, but in my personal experience, I think the closest to that would be microtones. Chords don’t have the chromas mush together that much. And different voicing does make the chord sound different, but I wouldn’t exactly call it chroma change though.
I tried to express this as well as I could but I had trouble, and am still not completely satisfied with what I said...

Karoma
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm

Postby Karoma » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:50 am

Lorelei,

I was just reading through your posts again on this topic, and it seems to me, from your thorough and insightful explanations, that AP is really an intimate and deep understanding of music. It's not about any singular aspect, like chroma hearing, or memory. These things are not AP, they are just results/products of your musical understanding that you can tell about and communicate. It's like AP is almost spiritual for the fact that it, the understanding itself, remains hidden and unquantifiable, yet reaps much rich fruitage like chroma layers and other things. Just how you do what you do, you can't say for sure, but because of this intimate understanding and relationship with (and perhaps love for) music, it comes out of you. This is beautiful. In light of all this, I have another question for you, what do you love most about music, what do you pay attention to the most?

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:53 pm

What I love most is when music does something unexpected, e.g. a flat VI chord at the end of a cadence, or it modulates somewhere unexpectedly. I just kind of listen for what music does. I know that just sounded really vague and general, but it's not like I can explain myself...

Karoma
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm

Postby Karoma » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:07 am

Lorelei,

Thanks for your response. I don't take you as being vague, I take it as you just being honest. Some things are just really hard to express and to explain. I have another question that may be a little easier, as it's a bit more direct. Would you say you have both AP and RP? For example, I noticed you mentioned something about dominant 7ths sounding different from one another, but do all intervals (regardless of their pitches) share any similarity in sound to you, even though they are obviously different and you know distinctly a C-G from and A-E?

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:45 am

I guess I do have both, since I do hear things like dissonance of tritones, consonance of fifths and octaves, major and minor thirds depend a lot on context, e.g. G and B (major third) sounds major in G major, in E minor it sounds like the top two notes of the triad (besides sounding like a major 3rd). Having AP without RP would be a bizarre experience for me, or so I would think: being able to say, "That's C and G," without being able to say it's a perfect fifth... hmm


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