An idea for future ear training and active AP

Talk about what you've discovered by using ETC-- and post your high ranks!
lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

An idea for future ear training and active AP

Postby lorelei » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:00 am

From what I've heard about ETC, it's working pretty well. Once it's gotten to the point that people get "passive" AP, I have a suggestion for the "active" version: a solfege game where there are three levels. The first level is a level where you have to sing along with a piano, in the second level you get a starting note and have to sing the song from there, and in the third level you get no starting note. There should be hundreds of different songs, and people should be able to add even more.
The reason I think this will work is because I successfully developed active AP with this "method." First, I learned how to sight-sing with a piano, then I learned how to sing with a starting note, and finally with nothing at all! The third level was the hardest to achieve.
What do you think of this idea?

aruffo
Site Admin
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Postby aruffo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:23 am

The main thing I'd wonder is how, in the third case, they'd be able to tell whether they got it right.. I'd want to develop a game-process where a person would be able to know whether they got it right without having to play the tone.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:44 am

you could have some sort of mike and pitch-sensitive software maybe? Or a reference note that pops up after 20 seconds or something like that? I had a piano next to me when I practiced my solfege: just didn't always use it until after trying.

aruffo
Site Admin
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Evanston, IL

Postby aruffo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:00 pm

That's still the same mechanism-- checking for accuracy by playing (or confirming) a note. It should be possible to know whether you're right or wrong without reference to any note.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:16 am

Another option (this still involves checking) is to just sing a note (whatever the program tells you to sing) and then play the note after you sung it. Then it will mess you up by playing a bunch of random notes and ask you to sing another. The point is, it does mess you up so you can't use the previous note to your advantage. It still involves checking, so I hope this is OK. Just trying to come up with ideas :)
Of course, if you want no checking, you could have the pitch-sensitive mike, but it doesn't tell you your performance while you are singing. Later, you can go check your results and see how well you've done. It doesn't help you while singing. Is this one better?

BigRed
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:04 pm

Postby BigRed » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:40 am

According to a previous study, "playing a bunch of random notes" does tend to help "fade" the short-term pitch memory of non-AP possessors. However, it only did this when the random notes were played after the note which the testee had to memorize & sing.

So it would be in this order:

1. Game plays a note, and instructs player to remember it.
2. Game plays a dozen random notes, once per second.
3. Game asks player to sing back the original note into a microphone. (And gives no indication of whether or not the answer was correct.)
4. Rinse and repeat.

After about 20 of these, it displays player's score as a percentage.
Last edited by BigRed on Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

BigRed
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:04 pm

Postby BigRed » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:42 am

This is similair to what EarTest (http://brenthugh.com/eartest/) already does for passive AP, while in "Test" mode. I highly recommend you download & try it, if you haven't already. However, this method addresses primarily short-term memory.

You may also want to consider using Spaced Repetition Systems such as Mnemosyne (http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/) to strengthen Long-Term pitch memory. There are other SRS progs available as well, such as SuperMemo and Anki. But I like Mnemosyne because it allows you to place sound, images, and HTML in cards and is easy to use.

Active AP requires long-term pitch memory. Passive AP requires only short-term (after hearing an initial note). Also, RP requires only short-term memory.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:29 am

BigRed wrote:So it would be in this order:

1. Game plays a note, and instructs player to remember it.
2. Game plays a dozen random notes, once per second.
3. Game asks player to sing back the original note into a microphone. (And gives no indication of whether or not the answer was correct.)
4. Rinse and repeat.

This could help develop active AP as well as passive, because active means you have to be able to imagine the note in your head, without having an instrument. The only reason I think this or my method works is because this worked for me; that doesn't mean it works for everyone though. Two reasons that made it easier for me are:
1. I already had passive AP and
2. I was very young (probably 8) when I trained for active AP.
So tell me all the ways possible to make it easier for everyone.

BigRed
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:04 pm

Postby BigRed » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:34 pm

lorelei wrote:So tell me all the ways possible to make it easier for everyone.


Hmm. I don't know all the ways to make active AP acquisition easier. I don't even possess active AP, yet -- although I have been identifying the note "C" with more and more accuracy.

I'm still working on gaining passive AP myself, which I believe to be a pre-requisite for most/all people before acquiring active.

However, I could tell you specifically what I've been doing in my practice sessions, if you'd like.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:06 pm

yeah I know, but these were just ideas to gain active AP after gaining passive AP was possible.


Return to “Your observations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest