Solfege

Talk about what you've discovered by using ETC-- and post your high ranks!
Nikolaus
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dallas

Solfege

Postby Nikolaus » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:19 pm

I remember last year 'bout this time I devised an experiment in order to determine whether or not MTs/fixed-do ear training was compatible with scale degree recognition/moveable-do ear training. Each MP3 track was comprised of the following:

random major or minor cadence

random tone

corresponding MT (in order to reinforce the concept of absoluteness no matter the tonality)

to pass this drill I had to identify not only the absolute function of the tone via the MT method but the tone's harmonic function as well, after which I would use both pieces of information (scale degree and note name) to determine the key. However, an inability to hear the absolute quality and harmonic function simultaneously also resulted in an inability to determine the key via theory. Oftentimes, I was only able to identify either the pitch or the pitch's function and not both at the same time which in turn prevented me from determining the key. So in other words I needed BOTH pieces of information in order to pass this particular drill.

For example:
random cadence ===> Ab major
random tone ===> C (which is the third scale degree of Ab major)
Now, when the tone was sounded I was supposed to hear BOTH the pitch's function (as the third scale degree of C major) AND the pitch's absolute quality via the MT method SIMULTANEOUSLY. As a result of this drill I was able to occasionally determine the tonality of piano pieces on air simply by hearing a single tone. For instance, I would hear C as scale degree b7 and therefore know that the piece was in D major. So yes, the two systems are compatible and beautifully so. Another fun thing to do was strike a random tone on the piano while listening to a band and thereby determine the key. Fun stuff!

Wade
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:25 pm

Postby Wade » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:58 pm

What is "MT?"

Nikolaus
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dallas

Postby Nikolaus » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:33 pm

Melody triggers! Sorry, should've specified that! :)

koenig
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:21 am

Postby koenig » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:48 pm

Really interesting post, thanks for sharing. That's definitely something I will be trying now :)

Edit: Coming back to your idea, this is even more awesome than I realized. I started working on it with excellent and increasing success. Can you write a little bit more about what you are working on currently?

Stefan
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:29 pm

Postby Stefan » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:48 pm

Of course they are compatible, they are both based on the same 12 tones, but in reference to fixed do(personally I do not see much use from movable do, but to each their own) does anyone know of the standard for the sharps/flats? I've come across many different syllables for these, and some ive seen just add the '#' or the 'b' to the do re me fa so la ti. So ya was just curious...

Stefan
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:29 pm

Postby Stefan » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:37 am

So I found Brennink's suggested solfege names in his reference materials, and I am liking them, each note with a different syllable all absolute.

ba pa ke vi ge
do re mi fa so la ti


anyone else use this style of fixed do?

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:33 am

I haven't used that particular style of fixed do, but it's fascinating. I have been using fixed do, and that is something I would like to start using.

Nikolaus
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:39 pm
Location: Dallas

Postby Nikolaus » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:34 pm

One thing that dawned on me awhile back is that to a certain extent it doesn't really matter what syllables one uses -- the brain is going to process sound the way it wants to and all we can really do is devise a system that not only conforms to those parameters but encourages growth within them.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:29 am

I agree completely: even before a person with AP learns the note names, they can tell them apart. It doesn't matter if it's a C or a do, it's still the same note.

Axeman
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

solfege names

Postby Axeman » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:02 am

I have seen these solfa names -


1-do,#1 -di (dee), b2-ra, 2-re (ray), #2-ri (ree), b3-me (may), 3-mi (me), 4- fa, #4- fi (fee), b5-se (say), 5-sol, #5- si (see), b6-le (lay), 6-la, #6- li (lee), b7-te (tay), 7-ti.

When trying to sing these I have found it hard to do all the solfa names so I just sing numbers for the major scale degrees and use the solfa names for the chromatic notes.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:45 am

I think it's easiest to work with what you have learned. Changing note names after having used some method is confusing.
Also, do you use fixed do or moveable do?

Axeman
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

moveable do

Postby Axeman » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:48 pm

I use moveable do I suppose.
I am interested in being able to pre-hear what I am playing on an instrument in relation to whatever key or chord is being played. Sometimes I sing along to a Band In a Box (application that provides a band for whatever chord sequence you type in) tune using the solfa names. Its cool too because you can set the notes to show the note names or scale degrees relative to the chord or to the key. It even has colours that you can assign as well - according to the key or the chord or absolute. sometimes I just watch the score (bass is usually easiest to follow) with the absolute colours on and listen. Sometimes I sing along. you can loop a segment too so you can continue to practice. I wonder which is better to hear - the degree of the scale of the key you are listening to or the degree of the chord that is being played. Or do the good musicians hear both at the same time? AP listeners must have a third level as well.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:07 am

I think AP listening is more like seeing the colors than hearing scale degrees. Well, I think it's that too, but mostly you hear the mood or color of the key and the notes. I don't mean synesthetic or anything, but each note has a "tone color" and keys have similar properties. But yeah, if they pay attention, I think AP:ers can hear both at the same time. I would assume that good musicians could do it too, but I'm not sure.


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