Condensing

Talk about what you've discovered by using ETC-- and post your high ranks!
zacxpacx
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm
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Condensing

Postby zacxpacx » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:31 pm

Currently, my latest thoughts on perfect pitch and observations playing APA are scattered throughout the forum. I figured compile my most up to date stuff in this thread. Text I copy and paste form my other posts will be put in quotes.

Progress and Observations with APA:

- Repeating levels makes the following levels easier. For example, repeating levels 110-120 for a week will make 130-140 significantly easier to pass versus rushing through 110-140. So the results of training aren't confined the levels you train on.

- Training on one particular pitch helps with all the rest. I just unlocked the second egg yesterday, and today I blew though levels 1-40 in 25 min. Levels 1-40 on the first egg took several days to complete.


- The "ringing" effect of having a pitch resonate in your ear after APA training has gone away. In the beginning, the ringing was quite prominent. As I've moved up the avenues in APA, what I perceive as the target chroma part of the sounds I hear has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. There is no ringing anymore. And I can understand why it's hard to sing a pitch for a perfect pitcher. It's not the repetition of a tone, like hearing a C and singing it back. It's creating a tone with your voice at a particular pitch, which is just a tiny characteristic of an overall tone. Chris described it as "wrapping your voice around a sound" in his research. That's a fairly good description of the experience.

It's certainly gotten easier to progress levels in APA with new target pitches. I plan to finish the second egg about two weeks from when I first unlocked it. One of the challenges facing me is that I have a ton of energy I'm willing to spend pursuing perfect pitch, but I don't know where to channel it. At the beginning of this calendar year I realized it would be of service to Chris if I'm at the forefront of his ear training technology. This way, I can try out any new training he comes up with immediately and make observations, reducing the lag time it would take for himself or others to work through APA. Also, if a process that successfully teaches perfect pitch is developed, we'll only know once someone has used it learnt perfect pitch with it -- I'll be that "guinea pig".

Aside: I'll write long posts/questions because I feel I must do SOMETHING. And there just isn't a clear path to obtaining perfect pitch right now, so there's not much I really can do...

Questions for Chris:

One of the challenges, as I see it, is that we must create distributions of chroma. As is, APA helps an individual isolate one discrete point on the chroma spectrum -- one for each colored egg. So playing on the A-pitch (440 Hz) egg will allow someone to hear the 440 Hz chroma after weeks of practice and advancement, by observing and comparing 440 Hz within different surrounding sounds and timbre. To model the loci learning process, a player needs to observe chroma surrounding A-440 in a normal distribution. How do we get them to hear surrounding chroma without creating another 150 lvls just for 441 Hz, 439 Hz, 445 Hz, 435 Hz, etc. ?


Put more simply: If the A-pitch egg plays 440Hz, the player will learn to hear the 440Hz chroma. Somewhere along the way in the A-pitch training, sticking a 445Hz tone into an egg won't get them to hear the chroma of that tone... Will it? Seems like perceptual differentiation with 445Hz may be necessary apart from differentiation with 440Hz.

aruffo wrote:1. Chroma isolation is required to make an absolute judgment of musical frequency.

This ability seems to be what's lost after the supposed critical period. When a child is naive about what he's meant to be listening for and how he's expected to interpret music, using absolute chroma to interpret musical sound could be no more difficult or peculiar than listening for traditional tonal relationships. An adult has learned to integrate and ignore chroma to make relative pitch judgments.

Absolute Pitch Blaster, by a perceptual differentiation strategy, teaches chroma isolation. One down, two to go.


If for children:
Chroma Isolation + WHaP == Perfect Pitch (including categorical chroma perception)
Chroma Isolation + Eguchi == Perfect Pitch (including categorical chroma perception)

Why for adults:
Chroma Isolation + WHaP =/= Perfect Pitch or Categorical Chroma Perception
Chroma Isolation + Eguchi =/= Perfect Pitch or Categorical Chroma Perception


Observations apart from APA:

In my months working on my first egg, I noticed my microwave beeps a C pitch when its buttons are pressed and when it finishes nuking some food. The C pitch that it plays has always been a little harder for me to hear than the Cs in APA (hearing the chroma, that is). Up until a couple days ago, I wrote off the issue of my not being able to hear the chroma clearly as having to do with the timbre. The timbre of the microwave is more obscuring than the APA timbres.

I've now revised my thinking. The C that the microwave makes isn't a perfect C. I always noticed this a little. It was a little "off" from the C I'd hear while playing APA. Before writing this post, I just verified with a tuner that it is in fact about a quarter-tone flat. My thinking now is that perceptual differentiation lets you extract shared characteristics from sound. Because the eggs you color in all share the exact same pitch, that becomes the characteristic you perceive. If the microwave sounded while playing APA, however, the C wouldn't be as easily perceived because it isn't exactly the same characteristic. It's just a highly similar one.

So issues with hearing pitches outside of APA may not be a timbre issue (it may also be a timbre issue, but I don't know) but an issue with categorical perception. A quarter-tone flat C isn't the same pitch as an in-tune C to me yet. It's just a highly similar chroma.

zacxpacx
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: United States

Postby zacxpacx » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:48 pm

UPDATE: The second egg took me 12 days to complete. I'm now testing out a split to finish an egg in 10 days. If I'm able to complete the third egg in 10 days without much effort, I'll just stick to the split, as it will continue to get easier with each egg I complete.

The Split
Day 1: 1-40
Day 2: 40-70
Day 3: 70-90
Day 4: 70-90
Day 5: 70-90
Day 6: 70-100
Day 7: 90-110
Day 8: 100-121
Day 9: 120-140
Day 10: 120-140

Today is day 3 of my split on the 3rd egg. I use completely random instruments.

UPDATE 4/4/13: Today is day 6, but I'm going to make a few changes to my planned progression. I still don't have 70-90 sufficiently under my belt. The time it takes me to complete those levels has decreased though, so I'll extend the number of avenues played in the next few days. I'll be cutting of days for levels over 100. In the past, levels over 100 have been easily completed in one day if enough time was spent on the lower levels beforehand.

UPDATE 4/9/13: Today is the first day of egg 4. The split works and is easily doable! I spend anywhere from 20-60 minutes on APA a day. I will continue to refine the split as I progress through new pitches. Right now, the levels listed are the end goals for each day, but I still do warm-up rounds on lower levels before taking a shot at each day's goals. I'll start trying to track which levels I use for warm-up each day, so I have a cookie-cutter plan for tackling each new pitch.

zacxpacx
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: United States

Postby zacxpacx » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:19 pm

UPDATE 4/16/13: Today is Day 8 of my fourth egg (the grey egg), but I'm ahead of schedule and have already unlocked the fifth egg. With continual improvement, I'm going to start to introduce new eggs into the mix while still drilling the last few levels of the previous egg. So tomorrow will be Day 1 of the fifth egg (the yellow egg) and also Day 9 of the fourth egg.

Here's to Chris finishing his PhD in the next few months!

aruffo
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Postby aruffo » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:55 pm

(Thanks for the support--!)

zacxpacx
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: United States

Postby zacxpacx » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:37 pm

Taking a bit of a break from ear training as I have a bunch of tests coming up and a big pile of work to get through.

Any luck getting done all the stuff you've got to get done, Chris?

Space
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Postby Space » Wed May 01, 2013 3:12 pm

I think there is a certain 'threshold' where one gets to a point where short-term memory for pitch is improved to a point where one can breeze through all levels of APA one at a time using the same basic cognitive skill and never really learn AP. I do believe, however, that doing random pitches (where you get a random pitch for each chick) can improve aural recall if the proper mental protocol is followed.

It takes me about an hour to get from level 1 to 120 on any of the pitches using keyboard shortcuts, yet, the ability to do this has not resulted in full AP, though there have been improvements for sure.

Space
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:54 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Postby Space » Wed May 01, 2013 3:26 pm

Yeah, I went ahead and tried it out again to make sure I really could do this. It seems that you reach a certain level of competency and the skill that is required to achieve all levels of once pitch can instantly be transferred to any of the other pitches.

This skill in my experience is as follows:

The ability to maintain an internal representation of the target pitch in short term memory by which to compare each egg.

The ability to 'set' the target pitch as a tonic so that one then hears the pitch as a tonal center which adds another cue by which to locate the pitch within chords and melodies.

Once these two are established, the last little bit that helps is every time the target pitch is heard, the internal representation of it is again reinforced and continues to be maintained throughout play.

The only thing I've found that throws me off is a strong dislodging of the target pitch as a tonal center.

I've begun to experiment at the piano with possible melodies and cadences that have a strong functional drive toward various tonalities. These would be applied in additional advanced levels.

My experience with APA has been that somewhere around level 312 of any pitch, the program glitches and doesn't go farther. I figure with these tonally driven melodies and cadences, we could push things into the 500's and possibly knock out one of the strongest remaining hindrances to unearthing and forcing chroma perception.

Rob

zacxpacx
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: United States

Postby zacxpacx » Wed May 01, 2013 5:14 pm

Ah... Hey Space, would you mind moving your posts to our other thread? I'm trying to keep a kind of personal training journal here for my thoughts/progress, and I just write here on the forum so other people can see.

Space
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:54 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Postby Space » Wed May 01, 2013 5:33 pm

Oops, sorry man. I didn't realize this wasn't open to responses.


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