Another question for lorelei

Thoughts and responses regarding the research at acousticlearning.com.
Archbold
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Another question for lorelei

Postby Archbold » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:58 pm

Hi Lorelei my dear perfect pitch possessor I have a few questions for you!

How do you know if a note is out of tune?
What is the feeling of a note being out of tune?
Does a note being out of tune irritate you?
Can you tell the exact mhz of a note and how do you know this?
Can you play with a very very slightly out of tune instrument like if A=443 and enjoy it as if it was totally in tune?
How did you train yourself to know that a note was in tune and when did you notice that you could tell if a note was tuned or not.

Thank you for your time!
Last edited by Archbold on Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:14 am

Hello there, I will try to answer your questions for me.
1. How do I know a note is out of tune? Well, it does not conform to what I have as my inner standard. It just sounds wrong to my ear.
2. As for what the feeling is, I might compare it to something like an itch you can't scratch: you know it's wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it. Can get quite annoying, especially since I'm a pianist, meaning I have no control over the intonation of my instrument.
3. Does it annoy me? Oh yes.
4. Can I tell the exact mHz of a note? No, I can't. Maybe there's someone out there who can, but not me.
5. Can I play a slightly out of tune instrument and still be able to enjoy it? Depends. 443 I could probably still do pretty well. But much more than that, and it becomes a struggle. A432 drives me nuts. And transposing keyboards can feel quite strange to try to play on. Interestingly, though, I can transpose by ear pretty well when dealing with a C-pitched instrument.
6. As for how I trained myself, I wouldn't call it that, since it wasn't intentional acquisition. How this came to be, though, I have no idea.

Thanks, and I hope this answers some of your questions.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:03 pm

Also, if anyone else has questions, feel free to ask! I will try to answer them.

Archbold
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Postby Archbold » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:22 am

Hey thanks for responding and yes you did answer all my questions. Sadly though I've gotten no closer to learning how to know that a note is out of tune except that you know all the notes internally and compare them to what you hear externally.

I'm very curious though about how you get annoyed about a note being out of tune. Can't you just ignore an out of tune note since you know it's out of tune? I only say this out of ignorance because if I were to tune my bass to an out of tune piano and it was completely relatively out of tune I would still believe that the A I'm pressing down is still an A even if it sounds like an A Flat.

Thanks again!

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:26 pm

Sorry for the long wait there. I've not been able to answer that question due to lack of an internet connection for a few days now...

you know all the notes internally and compare them to what you hear externally

I guess this does happen, but it's not exactly concious...

Can't you just ignore an out of tune note since you know it's out of tune?

Notes that are out of tune just sound off, and I'm bad at ignoring sounds in general (usually I don't even bother trying), so trying to ignore stuff like that doesn't really work. So in the end, it just ends up driving me nuts, because I know what it should sound like and it sounds different. I guess I could compare it to a performance of a well-known piece that you know inside and out. You know how all the nuances are supposed to be, all the dynamics and articulation, and then the performer completely botches it up.

I would still believe that the A I'm pressing down is still an A even if it sounds like an A Flat

Interestingly, I am completely unable to convince myself of this. I mean, you probably can't convince yourself that the red apple in front of you is blue or yellow.

I hope this helps, and sorry about taking so long! Cheers :)

Archbold
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Postby Archbold » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:29 pm

Wow you did put it to me perfectly. Now from what I'm understanding your perfect pitch is something that is out of your control. You can't influence your absolute pitch as this would be like as you said someone seeing a red apple as a blue apple when it's clearly a red apple.

It seems that us non ap possessors are going to have to learn our own way of hearing pitch. Something not as natural and innate as yours.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:14 pm

Well, I can't influence it in that way. I can't make myself hear a G when an A is coming out of an instrument. However, as I spend a little more than a month every year in Europe, and many in the states use A=442 instead of 440, I find that I'm getting used to it, and can live with 442 or 440. 432 drives me a little nuts though, and if I wanted to start listening to microtonal music, it would take quite a bit of time and effort for me to be able to enjoy it.
As for learning AP, I can't really say how that would work since I don't understand how non-APers hear well enough. I would have to experience it to really be able to compare the two well. Good luck!

Archbold
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:37 pm

Postby Archbold » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:53 pm

Ah I see so this is what I'm understanding how perfect pitch and non perfect pitch works.

Imagine if two beings were chosen to do a color test which is simply to identify the color that is placed in front of them. One of them is a human being and one is a dog which are notorious for only seeing in black, white and grey.

You can understand that the human being would have absolutely no problem with naming basic colors but the dog will be in a world of trouble because he can only see in black white and grey. What is this blue that the humans speak of??

So you can see how the human being is simply naturally more adept at naming colors because he has color eyes just like AP possesors can name notes because their brains work that way.

Whereas on the other hand the dog has no chance at this test because of the way his eyes are. Even if he were to become really adept at naming colors he would only be getting better at naming shades of grey. A great feat but he will never see in the same way that a human being can see.

Tell me if this makes sense! :D

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Postby lorelei » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:19 pm

So you can see how the human being is simply naturally more adept at naming colors because he has color eyes just like AP possesors can name notes because their brains work that way.


Your point does make sense. However, colorblindness is caused by lack of certain cells in the eye. Unless we somehow manage to grow new retina cells with stem cell technology or something like that, it will be really hard to cure. Perfect pitch is all in the brain: there is no difference in the ear itself. For some reason, the pitch information doesn't get processed the same way though. Why this is, I don't know. I do know that some scientists are searching for a gene (if it exists), although I don't know how successful they have been. Hopefully, more information about why and how this difference in perception occurs. Good luck with your ears!


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